tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN July 14, 2022 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
the question of lost or erased secret service text messages from january 5th and january 6th. joining me now, cnn senior justin spore tore spawn at george perez and attorney george conway. gentlemen, thanks for joining us. evan i'm gonna start with you for the reporting. i need to ask you about this d.c. police officer backing up cassidy hutchinson testimony. what do we know? >> yet on, this could be really important testimony from someone who was there that day. this is a metropolitan police officer who was part of the motorcade and who has now given an interview to the january 6th committee and this is reported from jamie gangel and annie greer. what they are telling us, essentially, is that the police officer was able to corroborate at least some of what cassidy hutchinson has provided testimony to in the january six committee. obviously, there's been a lot of pushback from some of the
people in the secret service, some of it on background, some of it on the record, claiming that there was some of what she was she was saying was that there was this altercation that the president, the former president, reached for the steering wheel and that he actually pushed the lead to secret service agent who is there to protect him when they tried to tell him he could not go to the rally. some of that, obviously, is very important testimony, and this police officer who apparently was there, corroborating at least some parts of that testimony, don. >> george, evan laid it out, i want our viewers to hear exactly, we want to remember what hutchinson told the committee about that incident, here it is. >> the president said to me something to the effect of, i am the effing president, take me up to the capitol now. to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up
towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel, mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing, we're not going to the capital. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engle and that's when mr. ronaldo had recounted the story to me, he motioned towards his clavicle's. >> the former president george, and his allies attacked hutchinson's credibility and even pushing back saying that the agents involved testified to deny it, but they haven't. so, how does all this look now to you? >> well, it looks like cassidy hutchinson's testimony stands, as of now, on rebutted. these stories, apparently according to other reporting, were circulating widely in the metropolitan police department and secret service. jamie gangel reporting today is
great reporting and shows that it's consistent with what cassidy hutchinson said. it's more important to take a step back, and to remember, whether or not trump actually lunged at a secret service agent, and whether he tried to grab at the steering wheel isn't the point. the point is he wanted to go, he was insistent on going up to the capitol hill, and no one, not even the behind the scenes whispers in the secret service who don't seem to be ready to offer up sworn testimony, not even they can attest that donald trump wanted to go up to capitol hill. that's the salient fact. that's the fact that matters. and that's why all the evidence is pointing to. >> more information about the secret service, evan. responding to reporting that they had deleted text messages from january 5th and sixth. give us the reporting and how the secret service is responding? >> don, the office of inspector general for the homeland
security department which oversees the secret service, told congress that it was doing an investigation into exactly what happened on january 6th and the secret service's handling of it, they said that that the key messages, text messages, from january 6th january 5th that were deleted. now, the secret service apparently was doing some kind of change over of their phones and as a result of that, those messages were deleted. now, the key point here is that the secret service is pushing back on some of this. they say that these messages weren't requested by the inspector general until february of 2021, well after the secret service had begun this changeover. i'll read you just a part of their messages, they're pushing back very strongly against what's the inspector general said, they're saying the insinuation that the secret service maliciously deleted text messages following a request is false, in fact, the secret service has been fully cooperating with the oig in every respect, whether it be in
interviews, documents, emails or text according to secret service don, they provided about 800,000 text messages and emails rather i know the documents that the inspector general had requested. this is still a lot of questions about exactly what happened here, the importance of this, don, the story that we were just talking about, on january 6th, it would be important for the investigators to see contemporaneous messages, text messages, emails any other things that could corroborate some of this important testimony. because, obviously, it's not just the witnesses who are coming in now, it would be good to go back and see documents from that time, to see whether it backs up parts of the story. >> in that statement, george conway, it saying that none of the text messages from the committee wanted were lost, that there is nothing nefarious going on. does that make sense to you? >> it could. it's too early to tell. who's right and who's wrong
here, whether both sides could be right. they seem to be talking past each other to a kind of carefully lawyer to look at them letter from the inspector general and the look at the statement from the secret service, the ig is saying that there were materials from january 5th and sixth that were lost, and with the secret service is saying, none of the things that you had asked for that's relevant was lost. those two statements could be both true, but we just don't know whether or not they're being contradicting each other are just talking past each other. and i think the ultimate question is, how does the secret service know that any materials they have lost were generated on january 5th and sixth 2021, aren't relevant to the investigation, i'd like to know just lots of questions here, it's gonna take a lot of digging to sort of get to the issue of whether or not anything bad happened here and whether it matters. >> you're right.
to be continued, as we get more information as this investigators come in. thank you george, thank you evan. here to talk about what all this means for the country presidential's story and jean meacham, he's author of the upcoming book, and there was light, abraham lincoln and the american struggle. so good to see you, john meacham. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> these hearings are not only repealing a lot of damning evidence about the former president and his thirst for power, but also about his enablers. and the violent extremists willing to use force to stop the legitimate winner, joe biden, from taking office. these are the hallmarks of authoritarian nations. how big a threat is american democracy under this moment, john? >> we're in the midst of an unfolding crisis, i think. beyond the hearings. we have this crisis of trust in the capacity of american democracy to continue to, as lincoln would say, long endure. and it's not being driven by
both sides. just put that to the side. it is being driven by a hard-core, right wing that has moved to more or less to the mainstream of the republican party. and we simply don't have, at the moment, two functioning parties under the constitutional structure. and that's where the constitutional structure requires. >> jon meacham, i made that very point this morning in our morning show, and you and i've been talking about this, i've been saying the very same fit for a while now. why is all of a sudden that people are shocked or upset or surprised at where the gop is moving in what is happening with the extremism coming from that party or is being co-opted by extremist, why is that shocking to people, it's the truth? >> it is the truth. i think that january 6th changed just about everything.
before january 6th, and this is why some liberal people might make them unhappy, but before january 6th, trump and his world was somewhat recognizable in terms of american history. right? it was joe mccarthy, it was george wallace, it was on a bigger scale. but you could identify it, right? there was recognizable. i sometimes think of this as, remember the old charlie brown cartoons where the kids all talked to each other but the parents and the adults all went want want. it went from being -- you could understand the 2015 to really the number -- you can fight against it, you could be disenchanted by it, you could be repelled by it but you knew what it was. a mob at the capitol trying to
assassinate leaders, trying to overturn a newly constituted election was of a different, not just degree, but a different kind. and one thing i'd say, and this is going to be hugely important, i believe, as we try to keep the experiment going, is from the bible, right, it's the prodigal son. it's rejoicing over one sheen even we have 99 who didn't go astray. people need to have a way back. republicans who are outraged by what they're learning, need to know that there is a place within the constitutional structure for them. they need to acknowledge what's happened, without that, they're going to continue to live in a fantasy world and not be part of it. but one of the things that i'm so impressed by in terms of the
overall debate, for those who are defending the constitution right now, is that it's kind of a joe friday thing. a charlie brown and joe friday so you can tell him really, really old. it's pretty much the facts. right? here's what happened. here's what the president said. here's what his people wanted to do. and the great question, and this goes to something that you and i have talked about a lot, the great question is, if facts or not enough, if the truth of what has happened and what led to january 6th is not enough, to get enough people who are willing to follow this authoritarian, if that's not enough to get them back, then perhaps we are not up to democracy. heck of a good run. it's been two and a half centuries. it's been imperfect. but it's always had the capacity for amendment and
reform and adjustment. but there's nothing guaranteed about this. and when i think that's what's at stake, is in fact, the durability of a democratic experiment. if we break america, if we break america, we're not getting it back. >> yeah. you're right on, i could end the segment right now. which makes my next segment all the more important. this is what olivia -- is reporting that trump 2024 announcement is a matter of when not if, i'm not sure how surprising that is he's leaving that way, we've all lived through the bedlam of trump's presidency, we're still living with the aftermath. i mean, what do we do, will this due to the country to have him actively campaigning for the next two years? >> i've been wrong about president trump from the beginning. take this for what it's worth. the people who think he somehow
not going to run, it's almost as though it's a rip van when called problem, right? if you are, if you're consumed by narcissism, what are you gonna do? you're gonna do the narcissistic thing. and that is, you're gonna run again. he doesn't even think he lost the last time. or he's convinced himself, not that he didn't lose, but that he should win. and that's a difference. i think that it's, if anything, here's a positive thought, if anything, it will remind people who may or may not be happy with the way things are unfolding with the administration, it's going to remind people that presidential politics is not a referendum. no one ever came to the country and said, do you want donald trump to be president? it was, do you want donald trump or secretary clinton? and then in 2020, it was not do you want president biden? do you want joe biden or do you
want donald trump? it's a comparative question. and so, having trump even more visible than he is, may remind people of why he was sent back to florida. and so, to some extent, trump may be his own worst enemy, or at least we can hope. >> jon meacham, always a pleasure, thank you sir, we will. >> thank you, you too. >> prominent conservatives putting out a report saying that the 2020 election was lost, not stolen. rebutting every single claim made in court by team trump, we're gonna talk to two of them next. next. everybody ready? alexa, ask buick to start my enclave. starting your bubuick enclave. i i just love our new alexa. dad, it's s a buick. i love that new alexa smell. it's a buick. we need snacks for the team. alexa, take us to the nearest grocery store. getting directions. alexa will get us there in no time. it's a buick. let's be real.
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>> okay, so i want you to listen to this very, very, very carefully, everyone. a group of prominent conservatives taking on former president trump's election fraud lies, a group which includes lawyers and retired federal judges, issuing a 72 page report rebutting his bogus claims that the 2020 elections were stolen. looking at more than 60 court cases filed by a team trump in six battleground states, the report found, and i quote here, there is absolutely no evidence of fraud in the 2020 presidential election, on the magnitude necessary to shift the result in any state, let alone the nation as a whole. in fact, there was no fraud that change the outcome but at even a single precinct. two other people behind the report joining me now. former circuit court judge for
the u.s. court of appeals for, the tenth circuit, michael mcconnell. and former counsel to the republican national -- and congressional committee, ben ginsburg. thank you both for joining us. i think this is a very important report in segment. i'm so glad that you're both here. good evening. ben, i'm gonna start with you. the report found no signs of fraud, not a single shred just, period. -- so important to issue this report? >> we heard what donald trump said in the election, those are extremely serious charges that our elections don't work. if, in fact, there was any evidence behind that, the system needs to be fixed, but if there is no evidence behind it, that needs to be said because of the corrosive effect that the allegations he was making is having on the democracy. that's why we undertook the thorough report. >> michael, you looked at more
than 60 cases, 20 were dismissed before hearing, 30 were dropped by trump's supporters, 30 had a hearing and lost. republicans still continue to push his lie, why, what is going on? >> i can only think that most people have not taken the time or the trouble to actually look behind the allegations. so, there's a certain amount of trust that president trump -- people assume he and his supporters must be telling the truth, but it's really essential for us to think for ourselves and actually look for actual evidence, and not simply to buy the claims of advocates in the system. >> ben, even before this report, trump's own allies knew that the allegations were baseless. listen to this. >> i made it clear that i did
not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out the stuff, which i told him was bowl beep. >> there was a real question in my mind, and a real concern, particularly after the attorney general then reached a conclusion that there wasn't sufficient -- to change outcome of the election, when other people can suggest that there was, the answer is, what is it? at some point, you have to put up or shut up. that was my view. >> at some point, you to put up or shut up. these people were under oath here. despite his own allies saying it's bs, new york times polling showing 61% of republicans believe that trump is the winner, 61% believe he's the legitimate winner. is there any thing at this point that will convince's supporters that he lost? >> well, we hope that looking
at the facts behind the case as well. the testimony of stephen airs, before the committee, the january 6th committee last tuesday, in which he said he was arrested for being in the capital, and he told the committee, you know, if i had realized, when i went into the capital, that there was no evidence behind the allegation, i never would've been. when i step back and got behind my social media filters, he realized that there was nothing here. we hope that this report, which does look at every -- 187 counts made in those 64 cases, filed by trump and supporters, we hope that this will help convince people that there is no -- >> it is a problem of getting the right information to the people who aren't exposed to it? >> well, it's partially that. it's partially the responsibility of elected
officials, it's partially the responsibility of voters, when they go to the polls this year. there's no one single answer to this problem, but we hope that this report will be another piece of evidence that people can use to see the truth. >> michael, the consequences, what consequences could we see to our democracy, if these election lies aren't put to bed? >> it's certainly not good for democracy, it's not good for the nation. this is, after all, a country that's built upon trust, it's build upon the idea of two legitimate political parties that engaged in putting policies before the american people. the other side is not an enemy. but i also am not an alarmist about all of this. i think one of the most important things to see in what
happened this year is just how strong our institutions were. not a single member of president trump's white house counsel staff believed these. the department of justice lawyers did not believe this. not a single state legislature succumbed -- republican legislatures did not succumb to these requests. election officials, republicans among them, did not. not a single judge bought these, even judges who were appointed by president trump. the guardrails were severely tested, but they held. i think that's an important thing to remember. >> thank you very much for that, michael. thank you, ben. it's an excellent report, again. nothing found, as it comes to the election lies. lost not stolen, a conservative case that trump lost and biden won the 2020 presidential
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two senate races everyone's talking about. georgia, home of football star herschel walker set to face off against senator raphael warnock. many in the gop worried about walker's recent missteps and whether that spells trouble in the state that they desperately need to flip. cnn's kristen holmes has the
latest. >> thank you. >> in battleground georgia, growing concerns about herschel walker's candidate performance and made a series of verbal stumbles. from his views on climate change. >> we can't control the air, good air inside a container, batter. if we're getting the good or, the batter got a move. it moves over to -- . good airspace. and now, we got clean air back up. >> to gun legislation. >> do you support new gun laws? >> and everything, i like to see it. >> miscues like those, plus a recent disclosure that he fathered three children he had not spoken about publicly, sparking questions about walker's ability to defeat democratic senator raphael warnock in one of the republican party's best opportunities to flip a senate seat. >> georgia's senate race, this november, is yet again, probably going to be the
deciding factor in control of the u.s. senate. and with a volatile national environment for democrats, raphael warnock defending the seat could end up being the decisive 50th seat for democrats or republicans. >> is herschel walker versus the truth. >> warnock's reelection campaign has aggressively question the gop's nominee to preparedness for office. in several recent television ads. >> is herschel walker really ready to represent georgia? >> hello there. >> walker's campaign? now signaling a reset. this week, announcing the addition of several top republican operatives. less than two months after the former football star easily clinched the republican nomination. boosted by the endorsement of former president trump. >> herschel has been one of the greatest athletes in america, and i know he will go down also as one of the greatest senators in america. >> well hello atlanta, georgia. >> but warnock is facing his
own challenges. >> some of the things that we're seeing nationally, issues with inflation and gas prices, and kind of the pessimism about the direction of joe biden as president is trickling down into georgia voters, even ones that are democrats, even ones that may like raphael warnock. there's also this feeling that joe biden and raphael warnock are tied to the hip, that republicans are trying to push. >> that's a message outside group supporting walker are reinforcing on tv. >> tell senator warnock to start voting against reckless spending to stop inflation. >> a recent poll shows just 33% of georgia voters approve of biden's job performance, a significantly larger share, 49% approve of the job warnock is doing. >> warnock also outpacing walker in fund raising. hauling in more than $17 million during the second quarter of 2022. compared to roughly 6 million for his gop rival. and on, both democrats and republicans have told us they
believe this race really could go either way. and that's very clear from how the parties are spending in georgia. we are still four months away from this election, there's already been nearly $60 million going into ads in the state. don? >> jeez. kristen, thank you very much i appreciate that. joining me now cnn analyst ron me brownstein. ronnie, that's a lot of dough right. >> that's a lot of money. >> let's put up that poll again because 49% of georgia's approve the job warnock is doing, he's pulling in the money, more money than walker. recent polling shows that he's up ten points. there it is. >> that's probably too high. >> you think? so >> there's a new poll out today, arp is doing polling in battleground states done by the pollsters in 2020 for donald trump and joe biden so it's credible, fabrizio on one side as alone on the other, they had warnock up three today. but most importantly, they had warnock up three at a time when
biden's polling was only 34% in the state. that is remarkable. he is running 16 points ahead of where biden is, we have seen very little of that in the last couple decades, he's picking up able to levitate that far above a president in their own party. but warnock has some real assets and he has some real vulnerabilities. >> it's interesting because he has these missteps, gaffe after gaffe, and even straight applies. but the interesting thing is, he appears to be getting all of the media attention. even with that. is that drowning out his opponent? >> no. i think warnock is a very vivid presence in georgia. look, i think people who run and study senate elections talk about how over our lifetime, they have become more parliamentary, meaning that voters increasingly seem to be deciding which party they want to control of the senate and not so much on a choice between two individuals. herschel walker is testing the maximum extent of that. because he is, i think they've been very few candidates who have ever raised as many doubts
about their own qualifications for the job, and he's in the ballgame because georgia is a tipping point state, it's a close state, and voters as we saw with biden's polling, about 34 for 4%, or really unhappy with the way things are going in the country. but even amid all of that, in this poll today by fabrizio and as a lonely, raphael warnock is winning one quarter of the voters who say they disapprove of joe biden. go back to 2018, there was no more than roughly ten or 11% in any state of voters who disapprove to trump who said they're gonna vote for the republican candidate and he's going to win 24%, by the way, john fetterman is very similar to that in another poll today in pennsylvania so, the question is can they separate themselves from what is very real disenchantment with biden, especially by focusing on weaknesses in their opponents? >> speaking of walkers, he still got 93% of republican
voting in georgia. i mean, it could be a really good mid term for republicans. do you think that is lifting his -- >> that's his only chance. it's very hard to imagine that there are a lot of voters looking at these two candidates, and the way they -- fluency on the issues, and say, walker is more personally qualified for the job then reverend warnock. what they are saying is that, we don't -- we want mitch mcconnell -- we don't want chuck schumer to be the majority leader and setting the agenda. that's the problem, as i said, that's why people describe -- more about the party and less about the person, more parliamentary. but there are limits to that. there are always exceptions to that. 2012, if you remember, claire mccaskill won in missouri because you're opponent was so unacceptable, even when it was voting very heavily against barack obama. as i say, what we are seeing, right now, in a number of the states, in wisconsin, in
pennsylvania and georgia, republicans are only winning a little over 70% of the voters who say they disapprove of biden. that is way below what you usually see for the party out of power, among voters who disapprove. can democrats sustain that all the way through november? that's going to be the challenge, but there is now a pathway and a plausible narrative that's developing that could allow democrats to hold the senate, even if they do relatively poorly in the house. >> stay tuned. thank you. good to see you. tiger woods back at the british open, and he's got some choice words for fellow coffers playing in the saudi-backed ally be golf invitational series. what's he saying? that's next.
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no burn or anything. this is so good. a lot of nicotine in here. golf great tiger woods playing the british open and lasting the saudi-backed liv invitational series. that cities is founded by the saudi crown prince, mohammed bin salman. the u.s. tell intelligence report named salmon as responsible for approving the operation that led to the 2018 murder of journalist jamal khashoggi. bin salman has denied involvement in his murder, here
to discuss that and more cnn contributor bob costas. bob, good to see you. >> good to see you in person. >> important issues that we're talking about, i'm so glad we are here to talk about it. this is what tiger woods is saying about the players who joined the liv golf series. listen. >> i disagree with it. i think that what they've done, they've turned their back on what has allowed them to get to disposition. >> so break this down for us. it seems like he is talking about loyalty to the pga, right? but this controversy surrounding liv is much bigger than that. >> we're talking about the golf dispute, the pga is where all the tradition is, where all the players and many other prominent players believe that this is a threat to the traditions of golf and that it's not competitive enough because they play only 54 holes, 48 man fields, no cuts. so they're guaranteed some money from it. in a number of players like
phil mickelson and others have gotten very large upfront money including the hundreds of millions of dollars. the pga tour cannot compete with that on a financial basis, but the saudi royal family has unlimited funds. that's almost like a free agency question within sports. the question of principle has to do with, who's underwriting this? the 9/11 families are especially incensed today because the liv tour has announced that they'll play an event at the bedminster course, donald trump's bedminster course, at the end of this month. and their final event of their first season will be at his doral course in miami in october. >> yeah. and when you make of that? because -- when you think of the timing here, it complicates everything we're talking about these funds, you're talking about potential candidacy in 2024. >> well, we know that donald trump is motivated in part by evening scores by revenge after
some comments he made in 2016 the pga tour pulled an event from the doral course as i recall. and then the pga itself, the pga tournament, which is one of the four majors was scheduled for this year at bedminster. and after, or last year, and after the events of january 6th of last year, they pulled that. donald trump does not forget that sort of thing. easily. he this is a chance, he's obsessed with golf, he is a chance to gain some measure of revenge. but at what cost? we can quibble and discuss what's phil mickelson has done or whatever, or greg norman has done, this is a former president of the united states who has ambitions to yet again be the president of the united states. the saudi's have already contributed some two billion dollars to a business venture run by jared kushner. some 700 of the nearly 3000 who
perished at the world trade center were from new jersey. many of them from the area right around bedminster, and affluent area. and there were people working in the financial district in the twin towers. this is a former president of the united states. and maybe i'm outside my lane by saying this, when you stop about, leave policies aside, you talk about somebody who told a gigantic lie about the election, and now it's obvious took specific steps to overturn a legitimate election. to attack the very pillars of democracy, and a former president of the united states, in bed and relishing being in bed with the people who very well have according to web information we're getting now released fbi files in the state department, there's reason to believe that they were responsible for financing and providing logistical help to the 19 terrorists who pulled off the 9/11 attack 15 of whom were saudis. >> those who continue to
support him, perversely think of themselves as patriots. i can't understand that. this is not a matter of conservative, liberal, whatever. what are we talking about here? is this country lost its mind? i think that's a rhetorical question, don, the answer is pretty obvious. >> listen, we don't have all night to talk about how i feel about that. and just about telling the truth in the attacks that people get for telling the truth. i want to get this in before we go, though. britney griner, wnba star, she's in russia and she's in custody. she was back in court today with a hearing in moscow, still no verdict. but the owner of the russian basketball team and test teammate testified on her behalf and testified on her character. what could this testimony do for her? >> i don't know if it helps or not. she's a political prisoner. but so is paul whelan, a political prisoner, there are
others. and it's pretty obvious that their intention here is to make a statement, to thumb their noses at the united states, what she did was at worst, a misdemeanor. it was foolish running a risk knowing what country she was in, to have some vaping cartridges in her luggage. she could face up to ten years in prison, they've already extended it by six months, at least that will relate to believe. maybe they're looking for a prisoner exchange? so, someone comes along and provides a character assessment, she's a nice person, she's helped russian basketball, her team excelled, xi's own good sportsmanship. you think any of that matters to vladimir putin? >> especially the time that we're in and what's happening with this war in ukraine and how the united states is helping. >> you're appealing to the better instincts of a regime and a person who bombs schools? and hospitals? and civilian targets? he's gonna be swayed that
britney griner is a nice person? >> i love having you, bob. i do. >> i like to get in trouble now and then. >> so do i. you know the late great john lewis said, good trouble. i don't mind getting in good trouble. >> no i don't. >> always a pleasure, thank you don. we'll be right back everyone. we'll be right back everyone. with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you b book and pay thrg you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done.
fortunately, no one has been seriously injured. and i want you to take a look at this. a drone camera capturing a shark today swimming a few miles off the shore of the town of long beach. long island. even lifeguards are on the lookout, two were attacked by sharks well role playing as victims during routine safety training drills. be careful out there, everyone. and thanks for watching, our coverage continues.
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